Talk:Dorgon Cosmogeny

From BluWiki

Feel free to offer suggestions, talk about the discussion points listed, and comment on whether this should be the world's cosmology.Daigoro 13:44, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Archiving some stuff from the main page here --Daigoro 13:45, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

• • I haven�t decided what the six races are, although the first two are Negro and Slavic/Scandinavian. The others could be Asian, Arabic, Amerindian and Caucasoid, I guess. They all have associated beginning fields of knowledge, but that will have been overcome by human invention, cultural mingling, divine intervention, and visits from Dragon or Seventh Race of Mankind.

About the races of men: (comment, Tantric)

How about "Africans, Eastasians, Americans, Oceanians and Indoeuropeans", those being the actual genetic groups of humans. Personally, I'd like to leave the whole Earth-race bit behind: "Doradoreans, Ysians, Lemurians, Nodeans, Atlanteans, Avalonians, Muans/Naacal, Thulians, Atzlaneans, Shungwayans, Hybrazilians, Agarthans, Zanjians, Shambalans, Mannheimeans, and Hawaikians". These are all based on lost continents, phantoms isles and mythical homelands. The peoples of Ubantu would be either Shungwayans (semi-mythical city state in east africa) or Zanjians (the old persian word for East Africa). Maybe Nodeans?

• • As the creation myth stands, they appear in male/female twin pairs, but other combinations could be done if necessary. As there are only two for each day of the creation cycle and each Race of Man, their number is then linked to the number of Races.

• • The counter-pantheon of Gamus includes at least the death diety, and possibly many others. They can be for all the bad Dominions- pestilence, disease, evil, demons, etc.

Naming

I ran out of names for gods while writing this, and didn�t want to interrupt the flow to think of some. So at the moment, obviously borrowed names are just placeholders until I or someone else comes up with something better- eg Mars for the vengeance/war god.

(Tantric) Personally, Greek names are fairly neutral. The Wabantu worship their ancestors, tribal founders and "god of many names" aka Dorgon.

This cosmogeny doesn�t address the existence of mana yet, only that magic exists and 7th has learnt how to use it. Mana could be the action of Dorgon�s will from beneath the earth, or even the chthonic power of all 3- Dorgon, Gamus and Ravis. Otherwise Dragon could be a good source for mana, or mana is aspected to each of these dieties. It could be a latent property of the planet as it was created by the Titans. Or it could be an after effect of the battle between Gil and Gamus, with their blood and venom splashed across the landscape forming mana spots.

--start of LemmingLords addition-- Mana is the creation/destruction energy that comes from the gods interacting with the material plane.

For priests, mana comes directly from the god(s) to the worshipper or from the god(s) to places of power (shrines, temples and the like) to the priest. A priest with the "blessed" and "power investure" advantages counts as a place of power in her own right. Priestly magic is the most powerful of the magics, but must rely on proximity to allied places of power. So the high priest of Mars standing on the temple to Mars will have a great deal more power at her disposal than an archmage even at the intersection of several powerful ley lines, BUT 100 miles away from that same temple in a high mana area the high priest will have less power, and 1000 miles away perhaps none...

For some arcane spellcasters, mana is used from ley lines which connects certain places of power... It is the energy that is "left over" from these lines of divine connection. Ley magic is the safest of magics, but must rely on proximity to the ley lines. A ley wizard is not confined to a particular set of ley lines - an archmage standing at a ley line between two Mars temples is just as powerful when standing at the ley line between two Venus temples... It is the power of the places of power NOT the divine venerated that determines the wizard's power.

For Gamus arcane spellcasters, mana seeps up from the belly of the underworld... this mana is pretty much everywhere and pretty much always "normal" level.. It does require a different kind of magery (Gamus magery) and focuses this dark energy through the caster - corrupting her... Clerics of Gamus creating temples to Gamus are often both clerical and arcane spellcasters and can create much more spectacular effects - often world shaking effects requiring amazing adventures of good guys to prevent or repair...

Recap: Divine Magics - Practiced by Clerics - Power Based on Proximity to Place of Power Venerating Cleric's Deity.

Ley Magics - Practiced by Ley Wizards (Standard Magery) - Power Based on Proximity to Ley Lines (which connect places of power).

Gamus Magics - Practiced by Gamus Wizards (Gamus Magery) - Power is everywhere but corrupting... LemmingLord 14-July-2007

Aristotelian Elements

Something else that needs addressing- what are the elements? Aristotle's/Common fantasy's Earth/Air/Fire/Water? Oriental Earth/Fire/Water/Wood/Metal? Taoist Void?

And for that matter, what about dimensions- heaven, hell, planes of the gods, the Underworld, a skyrealm, elemental planes?

Personally I'm not fond of elemental planes, but it's a fantasy staple and Gurps Magic assumes their existence.

Metaphysics

Comment: Actually, with some more thought, there's two or three ways of doing this.

• 1) As above, Gil powers the astral plane, and the astral material powers all the gods. Gamus supplies the mana field which powers the world's magic.
• 2) Gil's spirit powers the upper astral plane, and is the source of power for the High Gods. Gamus has created a sub-astral realm in the Underworld, where his counter-pantheon resides, and the Lower Gods draw their power from this. This gives a split between heaven(s) and hell(s).
• 3) When Gil's body, blood and flesh spread out and sunk into the earth, this created the plants and animals. This could also supply a differently aspected astral power to what we have in 2), making astral, sub-astral and geo-astral realms. This geo-astral realm could actually be the spirit realm, dead spirits enter it before ascending or descending to the afterlife, or they get stuck there as ghosts or ancestor spirits.
• 4) Otherwise, Gil's body is what supplies the mana field of the world.

--Daigoro 04:02, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

Comment: The choice of the source of mana, sanctity and astral power will have effects on how the game mechanics work for magic, priest magic and powers with sources.

• We could choose a simple option, where Magery is just Magery, which doesn't need to modify the Gurps rules at all.
• Or, we could choose a more complicated option, with Gil Magery, Dorgon Magery, Gamus Magery, High God Power Investiture, Dragon Magery/Power Investiture, and so on. Then we'd have to decide on rules about how they interact, required advantages and disadvantages (such as use of Gamus Magery inflicting a move to the dark side and gradual madness).
• Best option, I think, is an intermediate option. Default magery is based on the intrinsic mana of the world, which comes from Gil's blood and flesh. Some evil NPCs, special forbidden races, deep-questing dwarves, occult sects, etc, have a special access to a different form of Magery, sourced from Dorgon, Gamus or even Ravis, but every one else can use normal magic rules. Those with special access either have advanced forms of magery, or they build their magic powers using Powers instead.
• For priest and Power Investiture, we have to decide if there's one all-pervading astral plane, or if there's the 2 or 3 astral/spiritual planes described above. Choosing astral/sub-astral sets up opposing forces which affect how priestly powers work and interact- is it good vs evil, law vs chaos, or just more like us vs them? This might mean priests from separate High God religions, from different cultures, might be able to cooperate against a Low God power. Do we want things to work this way?

Whichever way we choose will have an effect on the rules for magic and such, so it might be better to establish which one works early on.

--Daigoro 02:29, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

Good and Evil

Comment: I want to get away from the concept of good and evil as rooted in the cosmological definition because it's a bit simplistic and inelegant. I've reworked the Lower Gods so that instead of being the usual gamut of death, corruption, vileness and evil, they're an alternative set of representations of the elements of the world.--Daigoro 01:03, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

-end of archive from main page- --Daigoro 13:45, 23 July 2007 (EDT)